Luke Rohenaz joins CoinGeek’s weekly Livestream to talk about TonicPow and Bitcoin SV
TonicPow founder Luke Rohenaz joined Kurt Wuckert Jr. on the CoinGeek Weekly Livestream, where they talked about TonicPow, the new world of micropayment-powered marketing it enables, and much more.
What TonicPow is really capable of
Wuckert says he received a payment from TonicPow for posting a link on Twitter and that this surprised him. He asks Rohenaz to explain what happened.
Rohenaz begins by explaining the full capabilities of TonicPow and how the API allows building all kinds of use cases. He describes how TonicPow is primarily about conversions rather than clicks.
“The main thing it does is let you build custom incentives into your product,” Rohenaz tells Wuckert.
Wuckert asks for the best way to dive in and learn more about TonicPow. Rohenaz replies that the team is available to talk about product integrations. Likewise, they put together several videos explaining the various functions, ensuring that everyone knows what TonicPow can do. For those looking to play and tinker with a campaign, it’s easy enough, but for those hoping to do product integrations, Rohenaz encourages contacting the team first.
Rohenaz then explains how there are different unique ways TonicPow payouts can be triggered. For example, he tells Wuckert that payouts can be triggered by using coupon codes apart from affiliate links and the usual methods. Wuckert gives an example of himself promoting HandCash. If the user uses their coupon code (eg KURT), it can trigger a payout. Rohenaz says that is basically correct, provided that HandCash had integrated and accepted the terms.
Why aren’t more people using TonicPow yet?
Wuckert complements Rohenaz with his broad view of what Bitcoin should look like from top to bottom, including everything from deep infrastructure to the application layer. This leads nicely to his next question, which is why more people don’t use things like TonicPow to launch affiliate systems.
“Part of it is me,” Rohenaz replies. He says he’s the type to put his head down and paint, perhaps not promoting the features of his products enough. However, he plans to change that by appearing on more podcasts, and he’s aware of some established companies that are in the process of connecting with TonicPow. He says some of these are outside the BSV bubble and are becoming aware of it as a business tool.
Rohenaz points out that the BSV ecosystem is not in sync with users right now. One reason is that most people involved in digital currencies are here to bet on coins. It’s not until real problems are solved and better tools are created that things start to take off. Rohenaz believes we are there now, and BSV is ready for the real solutions to be built on a large scale.
Question from a viewer about conversion goals and the TonicPow user base
Responding to a question from a viewer asking if view duration can be integrated into a conversion goal, Rohenaz responds that anything a user does, such as spending time on something, or any sequence of events, can be set up as a goal . Basically, as soon as the user encounters a conversion signal determined by the advertiser, it can be communicated to TonicPow and the payout can be triggered. Because of this customization, things like spamming links to receive payouts can be stopped, and it can be made so that the user has to stick to and even interact with the app or page for the payout to be valid.
Wuckert asks how TonicPow can be applied to TikTok-type content, which is typically short and video-based. Rohenaz says they can’t do the same integration they did with Twitter on many other platforms, either because their terms of service don’t allow it, or because they make it difficult for integrations like this to work. However, Rohenaz believes TonicPow can still be useful as “a dashboard to negotiate contracts between an influencer and a brand.” He says it will be a bit more manual, but it can still be used to a certain extent.
Another viewer asked Rohenaz what the current TonicPow user base looks like and if more advertisers and companies are using it. Rohenaz replies that there is a mixture between two types of people; those who already have a large audience negotiating contracts, messaging people and cutting deals, and there are also more casual users who occasionally share things. The brands roughly fit into the same two camps, he says.
Jamify – A music NFT platform at BSV
Wuckert turns to another of Rohenaz’s products, Jamify, and asks how it works with TonicPow. Rohenaz says it’s one of the best examples of what you can do with TonicPow. He says that just as Wuckert got paid to post a CoinGeek link on Twitter, he can now also get paid to post links to songs on Jamify. This type of integration will allow artists to have BSV-powered marketing campaigns for their new albums quickly and easily. For example, the artist may pay commission on NFTs sold to marketers who refer customers.
Rohenaz then explains how this can go much further, even extending to physical objects like t-shirts. He outlines how a band can sell a t-shirt with a chip in the sleeve so that the person who bought it can receive payments on NFT sales like albums.
“This sounds like the beginning of a kind of Shopify,” comments Wuckert, noting how what Rohenaz does is help other people’s businesses with integrated marketing tools. Rohenaz replies that this is true with a caveat. He envisions Bitcoin changing things, where we don’t have giant platforms like Spotify that integrate with everything else, but we have multiple platforms that all integrate with the same set of rules.
“If you have a larger ecosystem with lots of players all messing around by the same rules, we all benefit,” he explains.
Rohenaz says many new users come to Jamify to make NFTs who never knew anything about Bitcoin or BSV. He says he is very excited to flesh out the rest of the features he has planned for the platform.
How the TonicPow model differs from the current ad-tech dystopia
Another viewer then asks, “With all platforms guarding their ad space, is the end goal to support and build a social protocol on BSV that doesn’t have so many restrictions?” Rohenaz replies that he loves the question and explains that the openness of the protocols, enabling multiple platforms, is certainly the goal. He doesn’t like how big companies that control huge networks can set the rules and shut out the competition.
“It’s much harder to do when you’re using an open protocol,” he says, explaining his larger vision.
Explaining the key difference between TonicPow and the surveillance model of large ad-tech platforms that dominate the internet today, Rohenaz describes his model as “more passive.” It allows influencers to share what they think their audience might like instead of spying on them and trying to guess. Rohenaz believes that with the trend towards regulating the intrusive models, the time has come for alternatives, and TonicPow will not be affected by this trend towards taming the more intrusive ways of advertising because the model does not work in the same way.
Wuckert asks Rohenaz to zoom out and imagine where this will be in 10 years. He asks if there is a place for AI and other technology used in advertisements today. Rohenaz says a lot of that will be left on the table because the model just doesn’t work that way. However, he says there is a place for promoters to use such tools to find the best campaigns or assess audiences to see which campaigns might be a good fit. He explains how this is a return to manual negotiations, voluntary agreements and letting people choose things that make sense to them.
Encourage influencers to use the platform
Another viewer asked if influencers not wanting to tie their payouts to actual performance, preferring to monetize their follower accounts, could be a problem. Rohenaz says he has heard it a lot, but there is an advantage to it; brands and advertisers have a way of knowing their money isn’t being wasted. He is committed to this vision and believes it is simply a better product.
“If we provide tools that allow for honest negotiations, we’re going to be better off no matter what,” he says.
Alex Moon addresses this question and asks if there is a way to incentivize influencers via an additional payment during the contract negotiation phase to ease them into the “pay for results” model. Rohenaz answers that a sign-up bonus could easily be one of the conversion goals. He also mentions that subcontracting is coming soon, so users can recruit others, even at higher costs than the campaign pays per click/registration, and keep the difference, potentially turbocharging campaigns.
Building a Bitcoin Native Advertising Protocol
Wuckert then asks Rohenaz what he wants to see. “What would make you happy if someone climbed in and did this?” he asks. Rohenaz replies that in the short term he wants to see people take deeper product integrations seriously. Longer term, he’d like to release something “a little more native to Bitcoin,” such as an advertising protocol, and have someone else build something like TonicPow on top of it.
Wuckert asks if this wouldn’t undermine TonicPow, to which Ronhanez replies that it doesn’t necessarily. “If they bring new brands on their platform, but they go down the chain, and my promoters and influencers can offer those things while I’m in the revenue stream, I can still profit from it,” he says, noting that this kind of integration where everyone adds to the pie can help take on giants like Facebook and Google.
The other cool things Luke Rohenaz is up to
Wuckert asks Rohenaz what else he does and what he has been working on.
Rohenaz describes BUX, a bitcoin, UTXO and xPub manager. He describes this as wallet infrastructure, saying that there was nothing robust and open source enough when they started working on it. It has a click-and-deploy server, a console to help users monitor activity, and it can be used to stand up payment mail servers or as an application server.
He also talks about Jungle Bus, which they have been working on in collaboration with GorillaPool. He describes it as a simple way to filter different types of transactions such as RUN transactions, MetaNet transactions, etc.
“There are other things too,” he says, expressing an enthusiasm for reviving some of the older projects he used to work on but hasn’t had time for lately.
On Ryan X Charles’s last post
To end the live stream, another viewer asked if Rohenaz saw the recent post by BSV developer Ryan X Charles saying he is done with Bitcoin.
Rohenaz calls it “unfortunate,” complementing Charles as a super-capable guy who could also rally others behind him to work on things.
See: BSV Global Blockchain Convention panel, marketing, loyalty programs and blockchain
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